“Espanyol is a record; if it goes down, it is not just another drop”

What do you think of this Madrid?

It is a team in transformation. For me Zidane has a good hand. Madrid works as a team and is improving. Madrid should think that if LaLiga wins it would be fantastic, but if it does not win nothing happens, it is teaming up and is going up. Madrid rises and Barça hold on asserting the responsibility of their players, but they need other things. You will have to change your template. If you do not go young or make special signings you will become a veteran team with its shortcomings. Madrid is winning on that. He has his great virtues, he doesn't lose that, he always fights.

In your time, was it also said that the referees favored Madrid?

Historically it has always happened, but Barça too. The great ones are looked at with a magnifying glass. In some circumstances they have been benefited but in others they have been harmed. Sometimes you look at the straw in someone else's eye and not the beam in your own. There are circumstances like Messi, who makes a mistake, and then they call him a disputed penalty, and with Madrid the same thing happens. In the end those of Madrid are in favor of theirs and those of Barcelona too. Espanyol have hurt us. There will always be injustices. Perhaps if you can listen to what the referees say, people can understand them more and get out of doubt.

He talks about his Espanyol, last and eight points from salvation. How do you summarize what has happened?

Just a year ago we started the preseason. This has been long. We filled with Europe at the beginning and left LaLiga aside. The start was not good. And we thought that by winning in Europe, we would fix the other. But the results weigh you down. You get used to living downstairs. There have been three coaches, with three very different mentalities. We made new signings mid-season. We are always confident that there would be three worst teams, but that is not the case.

Europe as a dream and nightmare …

It was illusion. The first defeats at home marked us. It could happen, it could be logical, but we were not able to turn it around. When you're down these things happen. I experienced an extreme situation as a player. In the 77-78 season, before going to the 1978 World Cup, we beat Cádiz with three games to go. We had one point left to save ourselves. But we lost at home to Las Palmas and Racing. And in Salamanca we stuck the whole game looking at the scoreboard. We do not react. In the end we were saved because Racing won and in the triple tie Betis fell.

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What do you mean by that?

That there is nothing written, that you have to wait and encourage. We all must be faithful. The hobbyist always has to give. I was lucky not to go down. There is no need to make firewood from the fallen tree. The time will come to ask for responsibilities, if any. Now we have to continue supporting, the team will be honest to the end and not everything is decided.

And what would a relegation mean for Espanyol?

This club is LaLiga history. We are the fifth club of Primera. We play with that load and that weight. We are not a team of provinces. We are deeply rooted in competitions and we even fight for recognition in our city. They cannot compare us with others who descend. We have our people, who will be the same. Sure if the team goes down, Second may be a launch ramp. There is a Chinese proverb that says 'when you fall, to climb you have to bend down to take a jump'. You have to be humble. We cannot be proud. We are Espanyol but we are wrong like everyone. Espanyol have overcome many difficult moments. For honesty you have to do your best to the end. We will see it against Madrid.

Returning to Madrid, you know Asensio well. Has your time come?

Asensio is a great player, touched by a magic wand, who scores goals at decisive moments. Butragueño did it when he was 18 years old. Raúl, 17 years old, was a veteran, and he started to score goals too. You don't come because you do, you come because you're worth it and you show it and you have faith in what you do. I was in Madrid and I didn't show that I scored goals. If I had scored goals I would have stayed.

Do you see him able to go back to the City?

I see. He has done this before. Madrid can do it perfectly, it is capable of everything. Fight endlessly, win the matches based on entity and its coach. Before, he had two scorers who scored and ended up napping. He has fought these games that he has won: he has not won by sweeping, the wingers have ended up defending …

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He spoke before that Madrid functioned as a team and did not depend on a scorer. Espanyol is the club of Primera whose scorer has fewer goals, only four. Was that another drag on the course?

The goal is paid for and needed. Even if you have a great scorer, sometimes it is not worth or is very fair. It is important that there are several. Goals are important. There are good players, but they have not scored. The fault lies with the entire team, not just the scorer. The need is the game. Sometimes a defensive team is already worth it with few goals. Eibar do not have great scorers and they cut Valencia and are out of relegation.

What do you think Wu Lei felt when he missed that very clear opportunity against Betis?

That is not a failure, I do not know what word it is. The player's feeling is that he has thrown everything overboard. It's not like that. He has fought, he has worked, he has scored goals… He wants to score it. He must think right now that it is no longer worth it.

What would you say to the parakeet?

It should not be taken for granted. You have to be faithful until the last moment. We must continue with unconditional support for footballers and coaches. Then it will be seen.